Our Story, Your Voice!
Our Story, Your Voice is a podcast that amplifies the voices of Black African women in the UK, sharing their inspiring stories, challenges, and triumphs. Each episode explores essential topics, from mental and physical health to community solidarity, promoting a supportive space for shared experiences. Join us to understand, connect, and support this powerful community narrative that celebrates resilience and advocates for meaningful change.
Our Story, Your Voice!
Breaking the Silence on Systemic Neglect: The Harsh Realities of Housing Discrimination with Kwajo Tweneboa
Experience the harsh realities of the UK's housing crisis through the lens of activist Kwajo Tweneboa as he shares a deeply personal story of resilience and advocacy. Kwado paints a vivid picture of his family's struggles with inadequate housing, compounded by his father's battle with cancer. This episode shines a light on systemic issues in the housing sector, exploring the urgent need for reform and support for those who endure similar conditions.
The conversation fearlessly tackles the uncomfortable truths of government racism and housing discrimination. We unpack the chilling silence forced upon asylum seekers by the ever-present fear of deportation. By contrasting the differing treatment of Ukrainian refugees with other asylum seekers, we expose the underlying racism and highlight the need for compassion and consistent immigration policies. Kwajo's insights serve as a powerful critique of current government practices, prompting a call for empathy and fairness.
Finally, we shift focus to the undeniable contributions of migrants and asylum seekers to the NHS and society at large. Through compelling stories, the episode challenges misconceptions and spotlights the financial and emotional burdens these communities bear. We advocate for recognising housing as a basic human right and underline the importance of reforming housing and immigration systems. The episode stands as a testament to the resilience of these communities and our collective responsibility to address systemic neglect and prioritise human needs.
Tune in to this powerful first episode of Our Story, Your Voice to understand, empathise, and join the call for meaningful change.
Welcome to the UK. This is SON Real Life, our story, your voice. Welcome to SON Women Podcast and you're with me, agatha Piri, and my co-host.
Speaker 2:Hi, my name is Judith Nanshowa. Welcome to our podcast.
Speaker 1:So a lot of migrants here have been victims of social housing conditions. We are not saying the rest are not experiencing it, but we are saying we are getting a 10 when they are getting a 2. So in the program today we're going to talk to an amazing activist, Kwadjo. He is going to talk about the housing conditions in the UK. Last time we talked about immigration. We're going to talk to an amazing activist, Kwadjo. He is going to talk about the housing conditions in the UK. Last time we talked about immigration, we talked about mental health, we talked about a lot of things, but today we're going to focus on the housing conditions, because most of us are asylum seekers living in if I have to use that word nasty accommodations. And we're going to talk to Kwadjo. He's going to tell us more about the challenges it faces when he is dealing with this. So, Kwadjo, welcome on the show.
Speaker 3:Yes, thank you. Thank you, thank you for having me. I think it's a very important subject and one that I haven't managed to speak about as of yet, but one that definitely needs to be spoken about.
Speaker 2:Thank you, kwadjo. My question to you will be what got you into doing all this, what got you into these campaigns fighting the housing associations, and why are you so passionate about it?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it's an interesting one. Actually, I always tell people I didn't just wake up one day and decide right, I'm bored, I'm going to start talking about housing and all things to do with housing. It was through lived experience. So I've lived in social housing with my siblings and my family for the majority of my life. But we experienced poor quality social housing and I remember how much of a struggle it was for my dad to even get on the waiting list, to have to wait to even get into social housing, and that in itself was a challenge. And we were homeless multiple times under different circumstances, living in a converted car garage. We were in a storage container at one point storage unit, having to sleep there because we had nowhere else to go and the local authority wasn't helping us. And interestingly, that was probably more than 10 years ago now and things were bad then. But things are much, much worse now.
Speaker 3:And when we finally did get some sort of housing, it was temporary accommodation first and that was I described it a converted car garage and we had mold, we had infestation of ants, we had a bathroom which I don't even know how they fit a toilet and a shower into that cupboard, because that's exactly what it was, and even then, like whenever you use the shower, the water would pour out under the door just because of how small it just wasn't.
Speaker 3:It wasn't a functioning accommodation, yet there was money being paid to a landlord for us to be there. The alternative was to either take that I mean, my sisters were in our final years of studying um, so it was even, and we were born and raised in London it was either take that or pack your stuff and move to Luton in our final year, and my dad was pretty much forced to make the decision to stay in those conditions with us. So that's what we had to do, and in 2018, we moved into our permanent social housing, but again, that was poor conditions. We had cockroaches, we had mice, we had damp, we had mold, we had lights that were filled with water.
Speaker 1:We had a kitchen that was nearly 100 years old.
Speaker 3:We had poor security in the house and my dad became ill. He was diagnosed with cancer after about a year of being there esophageal cancer and it's an aggressive form of cancer. I mean, it's a tumour, and he had it in his throat, so he went from eating, being able to eat and drink and walk around to being bed bound and fed through his stomach three times a day by district nurses and he was receiving that medical treatment in those conditions and actually sat where his hospital bed was. And he passed away about a year later after catching an infection and it spread to his brain, which meant that he had to have brain surgery. He was due two weeks later. Actually, had he not had that infection? Two weeks later he was due to have the tumour removed. He was was due to have surgery, but he just wasn't strong enough after having the brain surgery and therefore the cancer progressed and he he died as a result of that.
Speaker 3:And things got from bad to worse our ceiling we had a massive leak.
Speaker 3:On the day of his funeral, the ceiling caved in and this was February 2020, but no one ever came out to look at the issues that we complained about until October that same year and then when they pulled the ceiling down, no one put another one up until January the following year.
Speaker 3:Meanwhile, we're having to live in these conditions and there was a whole list of problems outside of that that we were facing, and they tried to evict us during the pandemic because dad had passed away and we didn't have any rights to take on the tenancy. But luckily we managed to keep it. But I decided at that point when the national news came down onto the estate, I posted on social media and the news saw. It came down onto the estate for two weeks, an undercover investigation, and it went out as a top news story on the news, the news at 10, and our provider, who happens to be the biggest in Europe, was shamed into carrying out the necessary work. And since then people from across London, across the country and even places like Ireland I've had people from the US and even people from Paris reaching out saying that they too are living in similar conditions, under similar circumstances, and want some help because they don't know what to do.
Speaker 2:And it is quite frustrating for everybody and in different situations. I get it, but here at SORN we have women. Their situations are similar. But then the problem is, situations are made worse because they are refugees and asylum seekers. Can solutions be found? What is going on? Who is it we approach? How do we get a solution to end all these bad situations?
Speaker 1:Kwajo. I was in the asylum system for 14 years. And they've just given me a decision to stay in the country in September. So about 14 years of fighting and I'm still living in a home office accommodation, even though I've been given a decision and everything, but they can't remove me from their house. God knows what. I've been given a decision and everything, but they can't remove me from their house. But knows what I've done.
Speaker 1:So in this house I've experienced a ceiling like yours literally falling when my daughter was upstairs sleeping, and I did share it around on social media. I think that is the main thing that really helped me to get my house sorted out. But it was really a bad situation. They neglected it and in our condition we can't call anyone to come and fix it. They have to be the ones coming to fix it. And it looks like these issues you're talking about a few years ago and I'm talking about just last year, and things are still happening. Myself, I'm an activist as well. I deal with the system change because I feel like that's where the problem is, and I deal with the system change because I feel like that's where the problem is, and I deal with a lot of things in the community. Try to fight for that. But, like yourself, I see what you're doing, so amazing. Now my question is which button are we not pressing because things are not working?
Speaker 3:No, absolutely. I mean, it's difficult and it's such a big problem. And I've worked with asylum seekers. I know Serco, I know all of these other organisations that provide horrific accommodation. I've had to deal with them myself.
Speaker 3:And I think there's this image and I've said time and time again painted of asylum seekers. It's completely ignored the circumstances as to why they're coming here in the UK and the trauma and whatnot they may have gone through in order to come here. That's completely ignored and disregarded. But on top of that there's this image painted that when asylum seekers do come, they're handed the keys to social housing, they're given benefits, they're given loads of money, taxpayers money all of this when it's absolutely all nonsense. I've worked with asylum seekers who have no recourse to public funds and have come from absolutely devastating situations. I situations that the ordinary individual cannot not even imagine having to go through before even coming here and then being treated in that way. And it's just like the way in which housing those with disabilities and those with mental health are treated. I think is absolutely disgraceful at the end of the day, and it was covered up for a very long time, often ignored. I still don't think that the end of the day and it was covered up for a very long time, often ignored.
Speaker 3:I still don't think that the sort of the conditions surrounding asylum seekers has probably been looked into or uncovered and investigated properly, because still many have that stigma in their mind that they should be lucky, that they're getting into social housing, they're getting handed this and handed that. They don't know what. They haven't seen what's going on behind the closed doors, the hotels having to stay in, where five of them are having to share a room where they don't know each other. They've come from different backgrounds, different experiences, or they're living in homes with damp and mold. The person received their status after many years leave to remain and then they're told they've got seven days to pack their stuff and get out and they have to find somewhere else to live. There's no acknowledgement of that and there's not been any investigation.
Speaker 3:We haven't gone behind the closed doors of asylum seekers to actually see how it is that they're being treated. But there's this stigma that they should be lucky and they shouldn't complain about anything. But the conditions many of them are living in are absolutely inhumane. It says something when us as human beings would be more concerned if we knew that animals were living in those conditions, as opposed to asylum seekers actually having to, human beings having to live in those conditions. But it is fact and it is widespread and it's not just isolated to London, it's absolutely across the country. Or when they're coming from places like Afghanistan and they're brought here to London, they're settled and then told, actually no, pack your stuff up, you're going to Wales or you're going up to Scotland, you're going somewhere where they have no connection, nothing at all, no support network, nothing, um. And I think that's the reality. I know it because I've seen it.
Speaker 2:I've worked with people um, you are talking to people who've lived that. Pajo, I was moved from Manchester to Pontefract and every time I say Pontefract, people go where. I had no clue where Pontefract was, but that's where the property was, where they got me the accommodation. Lucky for me, the house was fine, but the area was full of racism, so it wasn't a perfect outcome for me. So, either way, it wasn't a good thing for me because I came out depressed, traumatic, anxiety, everything because of my surroundings. I had lost all my network and I've lost all my friends who I were with here in Manchester. So those are some of the things that people don't realize that if you live in a house like that, it damages you as well as a person, and people tend to think that these people are living in good houses or in four-star hotels but, you're living in a hotel with no cooker and you have children.
Speaker 2:yeah, so those are the things that people need to know and stop saying bad things about asylum seekers and refugees Because, like you said, they are already mentally damaged because of fleeing war, persecution and all sorts of danger where they come from and they get here in those properties. It's not doing anything good for them. So how do we tackle, especially with the asylum seekers? You have to tackle the home office, you have to tackle the circle and the fear of deportation is always in the back of your head the fear of saying OK, if I raise this complaint or if I push, this will damage my status, will I get the leave to remain, or my papers will not be looked at because I've made a complaint. That's what's always in people's heads as well. So they're forced to leave in those conditions. They I've made a complaint. That's what's always in people's heads as well. So they're forced to live in those conditions. They can't make a complaint anywhere.
Speaker 3:And it's that feeling of being trapped right. It's that feeling and fear of, in the beginning I just had enough. So I thought I'm speaking out regardless of what happens and I said, if I have to take them on, then so be it. But there is that fear that they're going to be evicted if they speak out or they're going to retaliate in some sort of way or like regards to asylum seekers, which is absolutely huge. That fear of deportation is always there and it's something that shouldn't be.
Speaker 3:Um, and it's interesting because we always talk about the importance of housing and how it is important to people's lives.
Speaker 3:Housing is a foundation.
Speaker 3:Having a roof over your head and a roof that's not going to cave in, is an absolute foundation to everyone's lives. You can't progress in life without having that basic. And, what is even more sad, we know that that is the case, but we also know when asylum seekers come here and they are fleeing whether it be war, persecution, domestic violence, we don't know their circumstances, but they come here and the fact that they struggle with housing so much they're not even getting a basic level of foundations to work up from. And that's when racists and people that discriminate against asylum seekers will turn around and say they're not coming in, they're not working, they're coming in to take off the benefit system, they're coming in to take housing and whatnot, but we're not providing them with a platform or a stepping stone for them to move up from. And had we been doing that, yes, that expectation could be set. And that is the saddest part is because we are not looking at housing as a foundation, a stepping stone, the absolute basic, fundamental that we all need as functioning human beings.
Speaker 1:Okay Kwadwo, I was reading an article from the Guardian newspaper and the title was British homes for British workers is an Empty Country, or a Xenophobic Slogan, which I do understand. But mainly the part that really caught my attention was the statement that said Not a day passes by English families are ruthlessly turned out to make a room for foreign invaders. They can't get a home for their children. They see black and ethnic minority communities moving in and they are angry. And then I was like hang on a minute. The last time I checked people that moved into British family homes, they were not minorities, they were not black people, they were people from Ukraine. They were the ones that said open doors for them. Now, how did we even get involved in this? Like our hands are up, we're struggling with our homes and then all we do is we are opening doors for you.
Speaker 3:I know it's ridiculous and I think that is rooted in discrimination and racism towards asylum seekers of colour. And I've always said, in regards to the Ukrainian policy absolutely we should look. It's great what the UK done, welcoming Ukrainian refugees, telling them, opening your doors, because it needs the support, but it can't just be one rule for one and another rule for other. It can't be one rule for white refugees and another rule for refugees of colour colour because there's no other way to explain it other than it being deep rooted in racism and discrimination and we know that's something that's existed for generations and that's just a clear example of it. Because the investment that was going into house Ukrainian refugees and this open your doors, welcome them, contrasted even with we talk about Afghanistan that happened a few months later, where we had obviously the taliban and we had an influx of afghan refugees and that change in tone towards them too. It was a clear example that it's one rule and one policy for one and another policy for another and that's absolute failure of government.
Speaker 3:but that article and I've criticized it in the past is nothing more than a complete dog whistle by the prime minister to right wing extreme voters, who will salivate at the idea, or any idea, that asylum seekers or foreigners are to blame for absolutely every social issue that this country is going through right now. And the government know that they would. They know it's a slogan that they will take it on because they'd rather absolve themselves of any responsibility for the failure that we see the country in now and pass that blame on to asylum seekers or refugees. And it's because the Prime Minister wants to look like he's being tough on immigration. We've already heard stop the boats and that rhetoric, and he said he wants to stop the boats by the time the election comes and by implementing this policy now he wants to show voters and show people that previously voted conservatives that he is being tough on immigration.
Speaker 3:I think it's quite disgusting that it's coming from a prime minister of colour whose parents or grandparents to themselves were immigrants to this country and that if roles were reversed right and they had been coming into the country now, it would have been much tougher for them and there would be conversations around deporting them to Rwanda. And yet there's no acknowledgement from him as prime minister or government. Yet he's willing to peddle this extreme discriminatory and racist rhetoric. I mean, what did he say? British homes for British workers. He may have just come out and just said what he wanted to say, basically being British homes for British workers. So get asylum seekers, and especially asylum seekers of colour, out of the country. I mean, you could have given him a bit more respect for that, because he would have just been open.
Speaker 3:But they're using this slogan. It's completely false and I mean statistics show that even that slogan there is just factually incorrect. I mean the fact that he's promised British homes for British workers he is unable to do. And the reason he's unable to do that is because there is no social housing to give them preference for. We've got 1.4 million people already waiting to get into social housing. 90% of social housing allocations go to British nationals and 81% of those, I believe, go to white British nationals. So if we're talking about facts and statistics, the government have fundamentally failed in even looking. I don't even know if they looked at the facts and statistics before putting that out, but I don't even know if they looked at the facts and statistics before putting that out, but I don't even think they cared about that. It was just a complete dog whistle to these right wing voters in order to cause division and absolve themselves of any blame for the state of housing and the state of social housing and social issues in this country.
Speaker 1:But then we've heard these kind of statements in other countries, like South Africa. We've heard statements like South Africa is only for South Africans and you know how it ended up Xenophobic, Other people from other countries were being killed. And the statements like this like oh, it's political, oh, we're just campaigning, but people that are listening, we all don't reason the same way and it comes to OK, leave our countries. Now where are we going to go? What's?
Speaker 2:going to happen afterwards, and they don't even take the responsibility of.
Speaker 1:Oh, we're just joking. It can't work that way, because what matters is them to benefit from what they want.
Speaker 3:I'm a uk national and I get all the time on social media I get told go back to africa, or being called all sorts of racial slurs. What was I told the other day I'm not british by ethnicity is what I was told basically saying the color of your skin, you're not british. What's happening is the government is trying to cause division and they're trying to shift blame right so that two groups, two groups that are suffering, happen to be some of the poorest people in the country, begin fighting amongst themselves and start blaming one another for the situations that they're finding themselves in, instead of them stepping back and thinking actually, this is because of policy, this is because of failure to prioritize us. This is because of 14 years of failing to prioritize our needs and the foundations of this country and the foundations of the lives of people that live in this country and what they need in order to progress and succeed. And it's scapegoating at its finest, I think by the government, but I think as a majority, the country aren't stupid and it's very clear and it's very black and white what they are doing.
Speaker 3:We have seen this for generations, we have seen this for decades happening, and the closer we get to the election, the more this is going to be happening. But I think we've got to a point now where so many people are suffering and are sick and tired of the circumstances that we are in, but also aware that actually, for these issues, it's not the fault of asylum seekers, that they are completely ignoring what is being said and actually wanting politicians and parties to demand and argue about real systemic causes of where, what and why we are finding ourselves in the situation that we're finding ourselves in now. But there are still a minority of people across the country with those views and it's pure ignorance and it's why I say that we need better education in schools. We need to be hammering this home from a young age and educating young people so that they don't grow up into their parents with ignorant, racist and discriminatory views, and that comes through education very true.
Speaker 1:And also there's a part that they forget here a lot of migrants. They contribute a lot in this country. Look at the whole nhs migrants, migrants, migrants. Anywhere you go you find a migrant working, starting from bottom to above there up there migrants. And all these seem to be ignored. All we focus on is oh, they're coming to the country, oh, they're taking our benefits. They don't even know the facts.
Speaker 1:Asylum seekers don't get benefits, and a lot of migrant people. They've got no recourse to public funds, which means what they get is what they eat, and then that's it. Money just goes in and out, in and out. They. Money just goes in and out, in and out. They don't get anything. And all this, they don't get considered at all. All we get is attacks, attacks. Now we're here to tell the truth. Migrants don't get mansions in this country. Asylum seekers do not get mansions from government. No asylum seeker is sleeping in a mansion Please show me which one. And then asylum seekers as well don't get 75 inch TVs. Actually, they don't give them any TV at all. So all of this that goes around on social media, in the media, some of them are not true. So we are here to provide you with their truth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, exactly, and that is what is needed. I mean, it's so interesting, right, that we I say we, the media and government are so good at talking about asylum seekers and talking on behalf of asylum seekers and talking about foreign people and foreign people of colour, but which one of them are given an actual platform to asylum seekers to actually give their point of view, give their experience, talk about the facts?
Speaker 3:and it just doesn't happen and it ends up painting an inaccurate, um factually incorrect picture of what is actually happening. And the idea of no recourse to public funds isn't a phenomenon. You just google it. You just google and it will tell you that.
Speaker 3:Yet for some reason, we believe, and there's these stink pieces and discussions on oh, they're coming here and they're taking everything they've taken was they were taking our jobs, and then, obviously, brexit happens and now they're not taking our jobs, and now they're taking our homes and they're taking our benefits and they're taking this and they're taking that. It really frustrates me because for a lot of this, you could just do a simple Google search and you will get your answers, but it just doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen. It just doesn't happen. And this is something that is going to get worse close to the election. And it's so frustrating because it's coming from people in this country that are in the highest seats and positions of power in this country. They are allowed to just go and spout viscerally and discriminate, factually incorrect information and simply get away with it, and it's just ironic that it's the same individuals who have parents and grandparents that were immigrants themselves.
Speaker 3:Straight up yeah, in relation to the point that you made in terms of the contribution migrants make to this country is absolutely huge. I mean many people, especially in London. You walk into a hospital and you look at the makeup of the doctors and nurses, from the cleaners to the doctors and nurses, to the surgeons, to the people at the top of the organisations. You look at the makeup of those organisations or education, for example, even housing and social housing, and councils, and the majority that I see will be of migrant descent or from a black and ethnic minority group. And you look at many of these roles, many of these working class roles, and you cannot argue that they contribute and are part of the backbone of this country and keeping us going. Can you imagine, right, if tomorrow the government turned around and said, right, all migrants or descendants of migrants or people of colour need to leave the nhs?
Speaker 1:ah, we'll be done, we'll be done completely collapsed.
Speaker 3:It would completely collapse and there's not enough respect there, there's not enough discussion around the contribution that migrants and asylum seekers make to the country, and by journalists, too, and by the media, and that is a failure of journalism. That is a failure of journalism, that is a failure of the media, that is a failure of politicians, because it's just they're completely aiding this sort of misconception about what is actually happening in relation to migrants and asylum seekers and they're failing to provide factually backed information to the general public.
Speaker 1:I feel like the media that talks about that they have the same views. So they just feel like, oh okay, they've already said our views. Then let's just put more fire on it. Come on, let's pump it up because it needs to go down. And yesterday we were just talking at SON one of our English colleagues. They had no idea that once you get a decision to stay in this country as a migrant, that's not the end of it, that's not British citizenship we're explaining to them about.
Speaker 1:They've given me two and a half years, even though I stayed for 14 years, but I've only been given two and a half years to stay in this country. Now, when that two and a half years is finished, I need to find 2,500 to pay for my immigration fee to extend my stay in this country. My daughter needs the same amount of money, which is in the next two and a half years. I need to have $5,000 just staying there on the bench waiting for me to apply for my immigration status again. Now, when we are being attacked, these things are not put into consideration. I'm being attacked for working so hard for me to stay in this country, but you are attacking me. You are living here. You don't have anything to pay to the immigration, you don't have anything to pay to the Home Office. But you're insulting me. You are attacking me for providing for contributing. You get my point. And they were shocked to hear that we need to have a lot of money. That's just for your extension of your stay.
Speaker 1:And then it comes to getting a british citizenship. It's a lot. I think it's five thousand or something. It's a lot. Now, all that we go through all that we work so hard, day, night, day night, to have that kind of money. But what do we get in the end? Or you're getting our benefits, you're living in our homes, you're getting this. When are we going to be appreciated? When are we going to be acknowledged? When are they going to say, okay, enough, because it is enough, let's bonus I'm gonna tell you the fees just went up yesterday how much has it gone up to?
Speaker 2:I can't tell you off top of my head, but, gmia, you were discussing the fees issue and they were preparing a campaign, so it's another issue as well, because you are already struggling. So you have to save up for those costs. And then you have the NHS fees surcharge as well, which you're going to be paying for, which needs paying again. So it's tax upon tax upon tax on top of poor housing as well. So the costs mount up, the stress levels mount up. You can't plan for anything, you can't go anywhere, you can't do anything, even if you get a job. The fact that you have to wait for that visa process as well to come back, it takes ages, yeah, or you have to be waiting and sometimes you lose your job in the process.
Speaker 3:You're constantly listening, but and in terms of these applications to asylum applications, I know, in some cases you have to be waiting and sometimes you lose your job in the process, you're constantly listening and in terms of these applications too asylum applications, I know, in some cases over 10 years, like we're discussing 14 years, in some cases you have your asylum application process and many people like in those situations, in those like 10 plus years, 14 years, you can't work, you can't have recourse to public funds, your lives are put on pause. Yeah, you cannot move forward, you cannot work, you cannot progress, you cannot contribute. Even if you wanted to get on there and work independently, earn your way, earn your living, contribute back, you're not even given that opportunity to do that there is always this argument of why do they have to go and employ people from outside?
Speaker 2:yet they have people who are already used to the system, who can easily get their status and get those jobs and who already have their families here, but they don't have any status and they can't work. So that is another issue that needs dealing with, but nobody seems to be accountable for that situation as well.
Speaker 1:They don't want to be accountable. The thing with asylum seekers they're invisible. Even the system itself doesn't acknowledge them. After the pandemic, it happened that I didn't have anything and I looked around in charity shops to buy coats for my daughter and I couldn't find any, because things were expensive even in charity shops. So my daughter ended up going to school with small coats and the school now had to ask her to come and tell me that, oh, mommy, my coat is small and there was nothing I could have done. I just told her go and tell the teachers. Mommy doesn't have money. And that was me breaking.
Speaker 1:I had tried to go online to look for charity organizations that can help her, just to buy one single coat. But trust me, every time I get a phone call, there was oh yeah, oh, so what do you do? Oh, so where do you live? As soon as it comes to the asylum, they do have the support, they have it. But as soon as I mentioned I'm an asylum seeker, oh, I'm sorry. Oh, we can't help you because we don't help asylum seekers, we only help blah, blah, blah. I'm like this whole thing is made up, it's pre-pre-arranged, the whole system is drafted already. So when you come with a problem. They are ticking the box. Okay, she's this, she's that, she's that. And then, when it comes to somewhere where they cannot tick your box, it goes to oh sorry, oh sorry, we can't help you.
Speaker 1:I'm living in a sequel accommodation. Yes, I'm told, be grateful, you have a roof over your head. Fine, I'm grateful. Honestly, I am grateful, but I would like to work. I would like to provide for my family. I would like to be an independent woman. I've got dreams, I've got visions. I need all of that to be met, but I can't do all that instead, or we don't have anything. It was only Sony that accepted me, like you know what? Okay, here you are, here's the help that you need. And then I thought you know what these people have helped me when everyone else gave me a no. Now what do I do? I started volunteering, I started contributing, I started giving back, contributing, I started giving back. And now it's even interesting because I'm now understanding myself more, I'm understanding the needs of other people more and I'm understanding the struggles that people are going through.
Speaker 1:In grassroots organizations. We meet a lot of problems housing, mental health, immigration, all kinds of things. They do happen and we see all that. Now we're like, okay, we're trying our best, kwanjo, you're trying your best. That now we're like, okay, we're trying our best, you're trying your best, but we're still not seeing any changes. You were telling us a story that happened to you back in the day and it was like you're telling me my own story that just happened, that's happening to another person. Now it goes to what do we do? Yes, it's politics, we can see that, but how do we get to them?
Speaker 3:now, with you know what hands up, enough is enough yeah, ultimately it's the blame lies at their door and they are the policy makers, they are the policy decisions and ultimately they're the ones that create and will be able to create the change. I think the sort of angle it needs to be argued from is the angle of it being a human right and it being a human right that is being violated, because I think it absolutely is. Every single human being, I believe, should have access to decent and safe housing as a minimum, especially as it's a foundation for us, as human beings, to be able to function, and if that is not the case, then it should be considered a violation at the highest level, and the fact that it's happening to so many people ultimately is the government's responsibility and therefore, if they are not responding in dealing with these issues, they should be held accountable for those violations, and I think that's the way in which it has to be put forward for them to to understand. But there also has to be collective voice. There has to be many to sort of apply that pressure.
Speaker 3:It's interesting too in terms of I've spoken about it many a time, I've even written about it talking about the no recourse to public funds, and I think it's purposely done by government to make it unattractive for people wanting to come here. Um, and it's supposed to act as a deterrent and I think it's absolutely useless. Um, and there's been number crunching, which which has proven that. And I completely agree that whilst asylum seekers are waiting for their applications to be processed, they should be allowed to work, they should be allowed to contribute and save up and support themselves and contribute back through taxes just like everyone else.
Speaker 1:And this is this argument. Like they're not paying taxes.
Speaker 3:They're not doing this, they're not doing that. They're not paying taxes, they're not doing this, they're not doing that. They're not working because they are not allowed to, and it's been shown that it will contribute billions of pounds to the British economy billions of pounds to the British economy if they were to do that. They've dug their heels in in the sense that they want to make it as painful and difficult as possible to act as a deterrent, and difficult as possible to act as a deterrent that they're willing to sacrifice, benefiting the British economy and British people by making the lives of asylum seekers an absolute misery on top of whatever else they've experienced.
Speaker 2:One thing the people don't know is asylum seekers are professionals as well. You've got engineers, you've got journalists like Agatha, you've got people who are doing highly skilled jobs and come here and when they are classified as an asylum seeker, they are reduced to nothing. So can you imagine a surgeon from Asia or the Middle East comes here and once they are in the asylum system, they can't do their job anymore, just sit at home and do nothing. And the NHS needs doctors, nurses and everything. Asylum system they can't do their job anymore, just sit at home and do nothing. And the nhs needs doctors, nurses and everything. And you've got those professionals on their application. Everything is known, it's documented what they were doing and everything but ignored. In that situation, my question quadro is if you had a magic wand, what would be your solution? What's your end goal?
Speaker 3:you know, like in the housing situation well, it would be for, especially at the next election, for housing to be the priority and the number one priority and complete reform of housing from top to bottom, including um, the treatment of asylum seekers, and there'll be an absolute focus on the needs of people being the number one priority when they were looking at housing, but also the relationship between housing and health, housing and mental health, because we talk about housing and it affects so many different areas. Education if a child is living in poor conditions and being moved from hotel to hotel, how can we expect them to get a decent level of education? The NHS last year spent over a1 billion looking after people in poor conditions and over £37 million looking after people living in homes with dampened mould. We talk about crime. We talk about lack of housing support or those coming out of prisons not being provided adequate support, or we've got veterans that fought for this country living in absolutely slum conditions, and the reason this has been allowed is because there's never been a priority of the number one person. There hasn't been a priority of the human being. We look at housing in this country as an asset and an accumulation of wealth. We don't see it as a necessity and something that every single individual needs. I think there is also an element and an argument there of we talk about not having enough housing, but then we've also got situations where we've got one person, um, who owns 95 properties, and there's many a case and many situations where that is happening up and down the country. The system is complete mess and there's many a case and many situations where that is happening up and down the country. The system is complete mess and it's causing so many problems. We cannot move forward as a country unless we completely reform the system.
Speaker 3:But also I think if I was waving a one, because I say as much as I care about housing, um, the next thing is, uh, immigration and the way in which immigrants are treated. It's disgraceful in relation to housing and outside of housing too. I have two immigrant parents. I know exactly what it's like and the racism that they had to face. I saw it growing up and I hate the way in which these lies and these factually incorrect messages, deep rooted in racism and discrimination, have just been carried, especially by politicians who have sacrificed their morals for a job title and therefore ruining the lives of so many others who had similar experiences to their parents and grandparents and ruining their lives just to get one up or just to get a job title or a pay rise. I think it's absolutely disgusting and that's where I think the reform needs to be. We need to be hearing factually what it is that people are going through.
Speaker 3:I think there needs to be a focus on social issues and this understanding that we have. We have gone downhill so much as a country that we cannot rebuild now without, first and foremost, after this election, focusing on repairing these social issues and our foundations. We've completely decimated what we had as a country and we are basically, metaphorically, being left with complete rubble. And until we sort those foundations that every single human being and individual needs in order to progress in life and set their own foundations, how can we possibly move forward as a country, be productive, maximise productivity, maximise our labour force, the wellbeing of the country, if, in this situation, people don't even have a place that they can call home? Wow.
Speaker 1:I know that's a lot, but it is a lot. I was just listening to what you said. A lot of health issues that are coming up because of their poor housing issues as well and to look at it as an asylum seeker, I know a lot of mental health issues as well do come out because of the housing conditions. We have something called immigration psychosis. This is something a lot of people don't know. When you are in a sick accommodation, you hear all these knocks, banging, people, different people coming on your door every single day and you just develop all this fear around you. Even after, when you go out of the asylum accommodation, you still have this. When you hear a knock on your door, you're scared. You feel like, oh my God, because you've been in that that for a long time, I could talk about this issue for ages and, like I said, it's so important.
Speaker 3:I know there's a focus on housing now, but I think this sort of stigma and just false image of asylum seekers and I won't even just say asylum seekers, I'm specifically focusing on asylum seekers of colour that come to the UK that is deep rooted in discrimination and racism. That sort of narrative needs to be completely destroyed and we need to be hearing the stories of asylum seekers, the real life impacts they've had on their lives and what the process has had on their lives, and getting the facts. Rather than being told x, y and z by the media or by politicians in order to win political points scoring, at the end of the day, we need to be hearing from the people that are actually being affected.
Speaker 1:I think so what are the steps to the? Solutions in terms of moving this subject forward yeah, moving everything we've talked about forward housing issues, forward the solutions forward.
Speaker 3:I think fundamentally, keep talking about it. I think talking to as many people as possible. I think publicly, we have to be hearing from asylum seekers. I think it would be great to see a campaign I know we've got campaign groups but like faces behind those groups that we know about and we know their story and we know why. It is just like I care about housing, having others who have had that experience that genuinely care, receiving the same sort of support in a way that I have, and platforms that I have to voice our experiences and my own experience and yes, I've got crap from people in the past about housing, our circumstances but I would love to see the media and politicians give that same platform and just opportunity to assign seekers of colour, to actually voice what is actually happening and change the narrative that's happening in this country. And, rather than dividing, the aim should be uniting and moving forward. I'd love to see that. I'd love to see the underdog actually prevail in this.
Speaker 3:I know I mentioned a lady that I was working through who I'm still in close contact with, but I managed to get her story on Sky News. But she had an asylum application denied twice and she was fleeing Kenya. I'm sure you know that there's news articles, even in the last few days, the violence against women, specifically in Kenya, especially at the hands of men. And she was fleeing domestic violence. She was a victim of FGM. She was basically being told she would be killed and her dad's house was burnt down. Her sister and brother were killed out there. I saw pictures, I saw videos of her sister lying in a field like. I saw all of this and so did the home office.
Speaker 3:Yeah, on two occasions they were still willing to send her back and I remember going in to her third appeal and it was the third attempt and I went with her and I was sat in there and the guy that was representing the home office, he was reading off his laptop screen and basically accusing her, grilling her basically and pulling apart her story, accusing her of lying, and um, I heard her case and her story and her barrister was there. He was quite useless, I have to say, and it got to the end of it and, um, I just thought to myself I have to stand up and say something. So, before the judge stopped, he was over on Zoom. I stood up and I said you may not be able to take this into consideration, but I just want to let you know this specific story has been aired on Sky News and there has been an investigation into it.
Speaker 3:I don't know if you can look into it, but I want to make you aware that that is there and I was worried after that like just after seeing the poor performance of her barrister, but also hearing what we were hearing and the spin that was happening from the Home Office representative, I thought they're going to send her back. But luckily it came back. She got five years leave to remain. She even left her kids in Kenya and they've just come over now to be reunited've just started school last week but she was at risk that if she was sent back she would have been killed.
Speaker 3:And it made me think at that point, having sat in that meeting, that they actually don't care about your circumstances or your history and the fact that she's just one individual. They probably are sending people back to their death and I just thought it was completely unacceptable. And then the conditions they put her into living under Serco too. It was just completely, completely inhumane, and that's why I care so much about this subject outside of housing too, because I know it's a life or death sentence for some people.
Speaker 1:I'm doing a documentary with a certain bigger media house. I'm not going to say it yet, but when it is out it's about asylum seekers life, real situations of asylum seekers, like where they live and everything. So when it's out I'm going to share, so you share it around as well. I'm actually doing something similar.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm going to be doing something similar. That was my next thing to do, but even that, I think it's great, and that is exactly what is needed. That is exactly who we should be hearing from and I want to see on TV screens. I want to see it everywhere. So I will absolutely support. I'll absolutely support.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you so much, and we've come to the end of our show today. Thank you so much for being with us.
Speaker 2:You've been so, so informative.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Your passion just shows it flows. Well done with everything that you do. Keep going. We are here to help and support, and this is why we're doing this just to raise the awareness, to make sure people don't believe what they don't know, break those myths that they're being told in the media that we come here to mine their resources. So thank you so much for clarifying a lot of things as well. Thank you, thank you, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:You're welcome and also thank you so much to Lankley Chase for sponsoring the show, and also Sone. Women and people in older Manchester and Charleston would like to thank you so much for the support you give us every time. Thank you for listening.
Speaker 2:This has been our Sorn Women's Podcast. We will be back next week, so see you soon. I am Judith Nyanjewa and Agatha Piri.
Speaker 1:Thank you, see you again next time. Bye.
